Soldiers of Empires 2

Discussion - scenario "Poland - 1939"

"Soldiers of Empires II" ("Soldiers of Empires 2") is a highly detailed turn based wargame of the World War Two beginning in 1939.

Re: Discussion - scenario "Poland - 1939"

Postby trurle » February 17th, 2014, 5:47 am

Khanti wrote:
trurle wrote:3. This game is HISTORICAL. If you want to add KOP battalions, you should find historical data about their deployment.


As you wish.
Rus
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0% ... 8%D0%B0%29
Eng
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Protection_Corps

KOP = Polish military formation that was created in 1924 to defend the country's eastern borders against armed Soviet incursions and local bandits.

Deployment - "The brigades were given new names, after the area they were stationed in:" ;)

After Soviet invasion on 17 September Korpus Ochrony Pogranicza had 26 battalions on eastern border. They were to delay Soviet movement not stop it, but IN GAME they should prevent FAST Soviet advance, so the scenario could last longer than 7 days ;)

Localization of all 26 battalions:

HQ Regiment KOP "Wilno" in Wilno
01 Batalion KOP "Orany" in Orany
02 Batalion KOP "Troki" in Troki
03 Batalion KOP "Niemenczyn" in Niemenczyn
04 Batalion KOP "Nowe Święciany" in Nowe Święciany
HQ Regiment KOP "Głębokie" in Głębokie
05 Batalion KOP "Łużki" in Łużki
06 Batalion KOP "Podświle" in Podświle
HQ Dziśnieńska Half-Brigade Obrony Narodowej in Dzisna (militia)
07 Batalion ON "Postawy" in Postawy
08 Batalion ON "Brasław" in Brasław
HQ Regiment KOP "Wilejka" in Wilejka
09 Batalion KOP "Budsław" in Budsław
10 Batalion KOP "Krasne" in Krasne nad Uszą
11 Batalion KOP "Iwieniec" in Iwieniec
CAV Szwadron Kawalerii "Iwieniec" in Iwieniec
CAV Szwadron Kawalerii "Krasne" in Krasne
HQ Regiment KOP "Snów" in Baranowicze
12 Batalion KOP "Stołpce" in Stołpce
13 Batalion KOP "Kleck" in Kleck
HQ Brigade KOP "Polesie" in Łachwa
14 Batalion KOP "Ludwikowo" in Ludwikowo
15 Batalion KOP "Sienkiewicze" in Sienkiewicze
16 Batalion KOP "Dawidgródek" in Dawidgródek
HQ Regiment KOP "Sarny" in Sarny
17 Batalion KOP "Rokitno" in Rokitno
18 Batalion KOP "Bereźne" in Bereźne
CAV Szwadron Kawalerii KOP "Bystrzyce" in Bystrzyce
19 MG Batalion Karabinów Maszynowych Specjalny "Sarny" in Sarny
20 MG Batalion Karabinów Maszynowych Specjalny "Małyńsk" in Małyńsk
HQ Regiment KOP "Zdołbunów" in Zdołbunów
21 Batalion KOP "Hoszcza" in Hoszcza
22 Batalion KOP "Ostróg" in Ostróg
23 Batalion KOP "Dederkały" in Dederkały
CAV Dywizjon Kawalerii "Niewirków" in Niewirków
CAV Szwadron Kawalerii "Dederkały" in Dederkały
HQ Regiment KOP "Czortków" in Czortków
24 Batalion KOP "Skałat" in Skałat
25 Batalion KOP "Kopyczyńce" in Kopyczyńce
26 Batalion KOP "Borszczów" in Borszczów
ENG Enginneer Company "Czortków"

Ordre de Bataille of 31.08.1939
http://www.dws-xip.pl/wojna/jednostki/kop8.jpg

Summary:
- 1 brigade KOP ("Polesie") and 7 regiments KOP ("Wilno", "Głębokie", "Wilejka", "Snów", "Sarny", "Zdołbundów" i "Czortków") had
- 22 battalions KOP,
- 2 fortress battalions (MG),
- 1 cavalry dywizjon (2 squadrons),
- 4 cavalry squadrons,
- 2 militia battalions (ON),
- 1 engineer company (Czortków).
Equivalent of 3 infantry divisions.

I hope you like it.


Fine job. Wait some days until i review the data. May be these units already present in scenario as part of larger units - we need to be cautious about double-counting.
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Re: Discussion - scenario "Poland - 1939"

Postby trurle » February 18th, 2014, 6:03 am

I think proposal of adding all KOP forces is not founded for following reasons:
1) 3 KOP regiments (in Hel, west of Ostrow and west of Turka) already exist
2) Some divisions formed on basis of KOP units (i.e. 35th, 36th, 38th and 41st infantry division) exist as well.
3) 2nd mountain brigade - including KOP units - already exist in Krinitca (Krynica)

These units comprise all 8 regiment-level or brigade-level KOP units.
Some small units are still likely missing, especially those who has become 33rd, 39th and 44th reserve infantry divisions.
Again, isuspect these 3 absent divisions may be double-counted with the 3 already exisitng KOP regiments.

Could you check again if these divisions are made from units different from existing KOP regiments.
If these divisions are are based on unaccounted for KOP units, it would be prudent to create them.
Could you investigate?
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Re: Discussion - scenario "Poland - 1939"

Postby Khanti » February 18th, 2014, 8:33 pm

Sure. KOP was planned and used to form 4 infantry divisions and 3 mountain brigades:

33 Dywizja Piechoty (Brigade KOP "Grodno" + Szwadron KOP "Olkienniki")
35 Dywizja Piechoty (Pułk KOP "Wołożyn" + Batalion KOP "Budsław" + Batalion KOP "Krasne" + Batalion KOP "Iwieniec" + Szwadron KOP "Nowe Święciany")
36 Dywizja Piechoty (Brigade KOP "Podole" + Szwadron Kawalerii KOP "Czortków")
38 Dywizja Piechoty (Brigade KOP "Polesie"+ Pułk KOP "Snów" + Pułk KOP "Sarny" + Pułk KOP "Zdołbunów" + Szwadron KOP "Stołpce")
1 Brygada Górska (1 pułk piechoty KOP + 2 pułk piechoty KOP + batalion ON „Żywiec” + batalion ON „Zakopane”)
2 Brygada Górska (Batalion KOP "Żytyń" + Batalion ON "Limanowa" + Batalion ON "Nowy Sącz" + Batalion ON "Gorlice" +1 Pułk Piechoty KOP "Karpaty")
3 Brygada Górska (2 Pułk Piechoty KOP "Karpaty" + 9 batalions ON)

In September 1st KOP in the east had HQ, 1 brigade (Brigade KOP "Polesie") and 7 regiments (pułk). It was something around 20.000 troops beside those that formed reserve divisions and mouintain brigades.

You can read how it was done in wikipedia, but most is only in Polish language. Anyway try this:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batalion_KOP_%22Kleck%22
This is example of Batalion KOP "Kleck" which formed II battalion of 96 regiment of 38 Infantry Division (Reserve).
It is written then:
Po zakończeniu mobilizacji II/96 pp (rez.) Batalion KOP "Kleck" uzupełnił swoje stany do etatu wojennego i kontynuował służbę graniczną. Dotychczasowy dowódca batalionu, ppłk Jacek Jura objął dowództwo Pułku KOP „Snów”. Nowym dowódcą batalionu został kpt. Stanisław Zwojszczyk.

It means that after forming that II battalion, KOP "Kleck" was filled with fresh troops from mobilization and used as border garrison. New commander was kpt. Stanisław Zwojszczyk.
So essentially: many trained, experienced troops were moved to front units like divisions and brigades but HQ and garrisons were used to form new units again from fresh recruits (re-create KOP battalios).

As of 31 december 1938 KOP in all country had:
3 brigades (Brygada KOP "Grodno", Brygada KOP "Polesie", Brygada KOP "Podole"),
8 regiments (Pułk KOP „Wilno”, Pułk KOP „Głębokie”, Pułk KOP „Wilejka”, Pułk KOP „Wołożyn”, Pułk KOP „Snów”, Pułk KOP "Sarny", Pułk KOP „Zdołbunów”, Pułk KOP „Karpaty”),
27 infantry battalions, 6 reserve battalions, fortress battalion „Sarny”,
19 cavalry squadrons, cavalry dyon „Niewirków”,
artillery dywizjon „Czortków” + two artillery batteries „Kleck” i „Osowiec”,
6 engineer comapnies

From those units only 1 brigade and 7 regiments mentioned earlier left to defend border.
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Re: Discussion - scenario "Poland - 1939"

Postby Khanti » February 18th, 2014, 8:42 pm

trurle wrote:1) 3 KOP regiments (in Hel, west of Ostrow and west of Turka) already exist


In may 1939 to Hel were sent:
reserve company + MG company from Battalion KOP „Sienkiewicze”
reserve company from Regiment KOP „Sarny”
These units fromed new battalion called IV/7 pp (or IV Batalion KOP „Hel” as some historians called it).
IV/7 pp means 4th battalion of 7th infantry regiment.
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Re: Discussion - scenario "Poland - 1939"

Postby trurle » February 19th, 2014, 3:16 am

Seems there is some conflicting information present.
In english wikipedia polish order of battle was different.
I will try to sort out.
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