Discussion - superscenario "World War II 1941 - 1945"

[Igor Kulakov]

Discussion, AARs...

[Igor Kulakov]

Recommend to view: After action report (AAR) by user Maximius : viewtopic.php?f=9&t=329
(russian language, use http://translate.google.com/ )

[Khanti]

One notice: there are TOO MANY cars/horses available everywhere.

Examples.
The Soviet Union ended the Second World War by having over 650.000 trucks available for army use. Of those, 58% were Soviet in origin, 33% British or U.S. and the remaining percentage captured from the Germans.
In game USSR has at start 1.000.000 ready and 100.000 in repair (1.1 mln effectively) so no problems with transport.

Also Australia has 1.500.000 cars at start which is unbelievable.
In August 1942, Australian Army had a strength of 476,000 men so it could be like 3 cars for 1 soldier

Suggestion:
USSR - 200.000 trucks
Australia - 100.000 trucks
but I have not checked it in any sources. Just common sense.

[Igor Kulakov]

One notice: there are TOO MANY cars/horses available everywhere.

Examples.
The Soviet Union ended the Second World War by having over 650.000 trucks available for army use. Of those, 58% were Soviet in origin, 33% British or U.S. and the remaining percentage captured from the Germans.
In game USSR has at start 1.000.000 ready and 100.000 in repair (1.1 mln effectively) so no problems with transport.

Also Australia has 1.500.000 cars at start which is unbelievable.
In August 1942, Australian Army had a strength of 476,000 men so it could be like 3 cars for 1 soldier

Suggestion:
USSR - 200.000 trucks
Australia - 100.000 trucks
but I have not checked it in any sources. Just common sense.

automobile transport included - cars, trucks, tractors, motorcycles. Info in units - real data (or near). Info in fast and slow pool - considering requisition civilian cars for the army. See more about this here: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=125
(use translate.google.com for reading russian texts)

[dalibor]

Khanti is right ....
I already wrote many times futile.

For example, in Romania can create per month several armored divisions.
Utter nonsense.
Many states had motorization negligible (Finland, Bulgaria, Romania, Japan, etc) and in a game that is completely different.

This game is downright broken.
But I resign .....

[trurle]

Trucks and machine guns are special in this game. It is absolutely incorrect, i agree.
Generic MG must be produced as sort of light AA gun (they already had a role of AA gun in game)
Generic trucks must be produced as a variety of APC. It further solves problem of armies using APC on ad-hoc basis (Japan, Italy)
Also, it solves problem of trucks overproduction in USSR (in fact, trucks were competing with armored cars for engines)

Stocks and production rates of trucks are also nonsense, i agree.
Actually, i am fixing WWII scenario geography now, so will fix the stock of cars in USSR. But it will be only cosmetic fix.

P.S. If you can, please prepare realistic trucks stocks list at the beginning of war
I will review it.

[Khanti]

(...)
P.S. If you can, please prepare realistic trucks stocks list at the beginning of war
I will review it.

I can try to find some data. But taking Germany as example the proportion is:
1.000.000 soldiers - 250.000 horses (25%) - 150.000 trucks (15%)
These numbers should be comparable with real war proportions.

Why 15%
Bercause in Germany 15% of its divisions were motorized/panzer units (used trucks). 85% were infantry/security divisions (used horses and trucks).

It is comparable with this example:
For Operation Barbarossa the Germans amassed some 3 million men, 600,000 vehicles, 3350 tanks and 2000 aircraft and up to 750,000 horses.
So for every 1.000.000 soldiers it was 200.000 vehicles and 250.000 horses. But some of the vehicles were not trucks but jeeps. motorcycles and so on.

US/Brit/Ausie proportions would be more trucks, less horses.

PS: In game we have 21.000.000 horses for Soviets but it is number of ALL horses in country. Only 3.500.000 were used militarly.

[trurle]

I have fixed initial truck stock for Australia, Germany and USSR to realistic values.
See test scenario. Please provide estimations for other countries as well.
Scenario can be used if you copy unpacked file to "add" directory.

P.S. This scenario is intermediate development version, industrial potential is unbalanced.

P.P.S. I think your argument about horses is incorrect. Civillian horses (from agriculture) was widely drafted to army as well.

[Igor Kulakov]

Gentlemen, I have a feeling that none of you have read the information in that link I gave you

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=125

I admit that some of the data, suitable for requisition of civilian property in need of corrections. But your corrections, Oleg AKA trurle, about 120,000 cars - not true.
Also, I repeat, vehicles in the game - is the amount of cars, trucks, motorcycles and tractors.

read this (USSR info) viewtopic.php?f=26&t=125&start=10#p798

[trurle]

Gentlemen, I have a feeling that none of you have read the information in that link I gave you

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=125

I admit that some of the data, suitable for requisition of civilian property in need of corrections. But your corrections, Oleg AKA trurle, about 120,000 cars - not true.
Also, I repeat, vehicles in the game - is the amount of cars, trucks, motorcycles and tractors.

read this (USSR info) viewtopic.php?f=26&t=125&start=10#p798

Ok, using your your data:

1.07.1939:
Легк. машины (вкл. автобусы) - 1 535 481 - light cars and busses has a limited military utility. Used mostly for liaison outside of frontline units, therefore not included
Грузовики - 450 641 - Germany did not transition to wartime economy until early 1943. Requisition for non-military economy would be about 5% (as opposed to 20% for military economy) =23 thousands trucks
Моторные ср-ва - 1 986 122 - tractors and motorcycles mostly: again a 5% for peacetime economy equals to 99 thousand.

Result: 122 thousands in reserve.
About the actual economic model of Germany, read book of Tippelskirh "The history of Second World War". I think 5% requisition mostly fit the feeling of his description.