Soldiers of Empires 2

Discussion about game

"Soldiers of Empires II" ("Soldiers of Empires 2") is a highly detailed turn based wargame of the World War Two beginning in 1939.

Re: Discussion about game

Postby trurle » February 10th, 2014, 2:18 pm

Absolutely divergent.
Game production ramp up at ~10 times real speed.
I got something like ~5000 H6K flying boats by November 1941 - but in history Japanese made only 215 (of them ~100 in June-November 1941).
The effects of course of war was different, but not by factor of 50 (rather by factor of 5 i guess)
Game AI very ineffectively put equipment in service though. As result, AI rapidly encountering "over-storage" and limit his own production to realistic levels.
Therefore, human player have a huge advantage of hyper-production.
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Re: Discussion about game

Postby dalibor » February 10th, 2014, 2:40 pm

So where we start ...?
We propose a framework prizes for each category?
In relation to other attributes we finish the final price.

example:
Tank 5 to 10 tons in weight (ie generally light tank, but deliberately avoiding this label) will cost between 45-60 points.

Other suggestions?
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Re: Discussion about game

Postby trurle » February 10th, 2014, 3:04 pm

Normalizing the prices is difficult question.
Approximately, just manufacturing 10 tons of equipment costs around 1 mln. dollars. (in 1990 prices)
If we use GDP data from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_ ... rld_War_II
you can see the daily production of Japan was ~5000 ton , Germany ~10000 ton and soviets around ~12000tons.
Therefore, in SOE2 currently 1 economic point ~500kg.
Therefore, light AT guns (300-800kg) are reasonably 1 point cost.
Light mortars should have fractional price - but it does not matter because these are not fiscal bottleneck.
Of course, you need to calculate ammunition costs as well. It will roughly double costs for weapons with slow reload. For AA guns cost will 90% ammunition cost.

I estimate 5-10 ton tanks with this convention will cost ~(7/0.5)*2 = 28 points in average.
Well, you make quite good guess (45-60 points)
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Re: Discussion about game

Postby dalibor » February 10th, 2014, 4:41 pm

Do not take into account the weight quite dogmatically.
For different products is labor intensive, which is a significant coefficient.

The point is to establish a basic price range for each category.

Me the price of 1 point just like it.

No problems will allow Romania to produce, for example, 500 anti-tank guns month.

Or the price of a Danish armored car. 5-8 points. This will allow Denmark to produce dozens of armored vehicles daily. (when the value of Danish Industry, about 5600 points)
In fact, the Danish army almost no armored cars not because they could not afford it ......
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Re: Discussion about game

Postby trurle » February 10th, 2014, 10:20 pm

Dalibor, thank you for noticing!
I have realized just now. There is a problem with 1610-strong economy of Danish. Economy must be smaller.
Denmark economy will be reduced ~ 2-3 times after (and if) small ports fix will be implemented. If so, "learning curve" penalty is applied, significantly increasing cost of danish armored cars - may be even to impossibility to produce.

About Rumania - they can produce hundreds AT guns daily. But cannot equip them all. Their units limit is 87 initially, therefore counting 48 AT guns per infantry division will saturate them with AT guns in few weeks.
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Re: Discussion about game

Postby dalibor » February 10th, 2014, 11:36 pm

He said I just random examples ....
Producing 87 AT guns Romania for a day is nonsense ....
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Re: Discussion about game

Postby trurle » February 11th, 2014, 12:07 am

You misunderstood. 87 is number of units, not number of AT-guns.
87 units limit amount of AT guns Rumania can use simultaneously to 48*87=4176 guns
Actual army will have air units and auxiliary units as well, so Rumanian army will never arm more than 2000 guns.
For 2000 guns in inventory, peacetime production is 1 gun/day will suffice. At wartime, approximately 6 guns/day will be enough to replenish all losses.
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Re: Discussion about game

Postby dalibor » February 11th, 2014, 2:53 am

Are you proposing to introduce a daily limit on production (not a bad idea ...)
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Re: Discussion about game

Postby trurle » February 11th, 2014, 3:02 am

Not exactly..i am saying what any production beyond this limit (6 guns/day for Rumania) will be pointless.
But it is not necessary to forbid every absurd thing. Absurdity is the part of the normal life.
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Re: Discussion about game

Postby Igor Kulakov » February 11th, 2014, 8:22 pm

I see discussion immersed in excessive thinness. The problem of perfectionism. I see the decision to increase the price of heavy and sophisticated weapons and the speed limit for the production of these types of weapons (not increase by 1 every day, such as 1 every 2 days or 1 every 4 days)
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